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greg

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Jan 29 11 7:27 PM

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Dave,

Here are the pics of the Citation rudder/stuffing box/bearing-maybe?/and so on.......I'm in uncharted territory...But it looks like something's been done..the hose feels new the 4 clamps looked new..and some glass work at the rudder tube looks good too....I didn't expect the stack of fiberglass bearing???maybe...I was looking for some type of stainless bearing...the info I have on the 31' citation is completely different, so I can't go by that. The rudder itself looks fine, and the shaft's ok. As for the support outside it had deteriorated bolts and the halfs that surrounded the shaft had no insert "maybe there wasn't one I'm not sure"...Check out the pics and let me know what you think....Oh yeah the channel Iron with the bronze piece and collar, should that support be fabbed out of stainless??

Greg

Yes the Citation is my home away home!!

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#4 [url]

Jan 30 11 7:57 AM

Greg,

Second photo--top or bottom of the rudder I assume--signs of rust there may indicate that sea water leaked past into the rudder. I would ensure the rudder does not have water in it--I would drill some 1/4 test holes--and if not seal the rudder post top and bottom with a fillet of 5200.

Third photo--the clams that make up the gudgeon. I assume to be bronze and looks in fine shape. I would be inclined to get all new fasteners out of bronze as well instead of stainless (in other words same material as what is being fastened). 

If you have an overall photo of the rudder mounted--that would be helpful?

Dave

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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greg

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#5 [url]

Jan 30 11 8:07 AM

Dave,

Yes-cockpit sole
The stuff in the channel Iron is rust flakes and crude
The rudderpost- I guess the collar sits on the bronze for support "I think" I blocked the rudder outside so it wouldn't fall out so I guess I lifted it up in the process....When everything is together it can't be lifted off the gudgeon because it actually clamps around the rudder post.

Greg

Greg

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#7 [url]

Jan 30 11 10:18 AM

Greg,

Ok the bottom gudgeon is stainless. It looks in very good shape. I would fashion or acquire a delrin or Teflon "washer" to sit on top of the top of the gudgeon and protect the bottom of the rudder against the top of the metal gudgeon. I think the rust is something to be investigated. Definitely put it back together with a lot of LanoCote or wheel bearing grease on the pintel and inside the gudgeon. I would consider drilling out the mounting holes and use larger diameter thru bolts and coat all of them liberally with LanoCote before reassembling. 

When you say << When everything is together it can't be lifted off the gudgeon because it actually clamps around the rudder post. >>


Do you mean that the gudgeon collar when fully tight grips the pintel (rudder post)? If so how does the rudder turn? It should be a non wobbly fit but not grip so much as to prevent a nice lubricated movement. Shim the collars with a very thin washers if that is the case.

The iron channel brace needs to be replaced with stainless if you can make it. Otherwise 1-1/4" teak or even maple would work as well.

There has been some obvious repairs to the rudder tube but they look very beefy. I would replace the hose and clamps while you have everything out.

Dave

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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greg

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Jan 31 11 7:10 PM

Dave,

Thanks so much for looking this over and for the advice! What a great idea with the washer, never would of thought of that. It's easy to get tunnel vision and only think of how it was originally installed and not consider any improvements. I'll check McMaster to see if the have delrin, I'm pretty sure they do. Lanocote...is this a McMaster item too or Jamestown.....don't have any "yet"...Hey I added a couple additional pics so you can understand a little better how the gudgeon fits and attaches... when it's tightened up it doesn't grip the rudderpost but I think it should have some type of bearing in it, check it out and see what you think....Absolutely yes on them bolts 5/16" instead of 1/4, I'm pretty sure it's all been apart for some reason, and they just chunked some 1/4 bolts back in there...They probably didn't want to go to the hardware...A new hose and clamps like you have on the Bristol will be a must....Have you got an idea on how I can check the bearings that are inside the rudder tube, they will come out....I can slip them over the rudderpost to see how tight they are or should I just find out where to get 2 new ones. Also I haven't pulled the packing out of the nut on the rudderpost seal, I guess I need to do that too so it will all be new and ready to go. I remember seeing some info on the stuff you use for packing I'll see if I can find it again.


Greg

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greg

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#10 [url]

Jan 31 11 7:39 PM

Dave,

Just a pic of what it looked like installed...and a fun shot of me and the kids "What a GREAT day"! we were on an Island Packet motoring in from the pass at St. Andrews Bay....Pete our instructor took the pic..Reef Runner is a fantastic ASA school! But.......to know what it's really like to be out there and really experience what sailing is all about I have yet to learn........



Click here to view the attachment

Greg

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#11 [url]

Feb 1 11 5:53 AM


Greg,

Yes that makes sense and you definitely need a bearing on the top of the gudgeon. You might notice that you have a lot of crevice corrosion on the existing 1/4" fasteners. I would go with 316 stainless replacement bolts:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-head-cap-screws/=auckm2

McMaster has PTFE filled delrin sheets, 1/8" thickness:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ptfe-filled-delrin/=aucm8q

I can't say enough good about LanoCote. It is basically amorphous lanolin (sheep grease) and is great stuff:
http://www.forespar.com/products/boat-lubricant-lanocote.shtml

A couple of thoughts: I would load the inside of the gudgeon with LanoCote so it squished out everywhere when you install the gudgeon. I would replace the squeeze bolts on the gudgeon clams with 316 hardware as well. And I would use red Loctite on all the nuts in the assembly.

Great shot of you and your kids. That's what it is all about!

Dave

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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greg

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#14 [url]

Feb 6 11 6:07 PM

Dave,

Rudder tubes and bearings....do they come as a set? would Jamestown have them?  What do you think demo the rigged up work and install a complete new tube and bearing....I'm also looking into the gudgeon too I think someone has fabbed that also....

Greg

Hey almost forgot to mention there is only 1 bearing not 2 in the tube.....yeah just one....?

Greg

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#15 [url]

Feb 8 11 5:48 AM


Greg,

Not to my knowledge. Rudder tubes are essentially the same as stern tubes. Bearings on the other hand are something that will probably take some creative thinking. Do you have the old bearing and can you take accurate measurements of it? The pic of the "bearing" that looks like a sleeve--was that inside the rudder tube acting as a bearing or shim? I think you could find a Teflon or Delrin tube that might work...

Dave

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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greg

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#16 [url]

Feb 8 11 7:05 PM

Dave,

Yeah the sleeve you see in the pic that kinda coming apart is the current bearing.. it fits down inside the rudder tube. I'm pretty sure McMaster will have something. I was reading in Nigel Calders book that Delrin and another plastic "UHMWPE" Ultra high molecular-weight polyethylene were the best to use because they don't absorb water. I'll get the dia. measurement of the rudderpost and see what I can find that will fit the post and work in the tube...

Greg

Greg

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#20 [url]

Feb 12 11 5:40 AM

Greg,

The hose is Vetus water hose. It is wire reinforced but has a small bend radius and is great hose IMO. Lots of chandleries sell it, but in rolls. However I have found one source, Boatersworld, who sells it by the foot:

http://www.boatersworld.com/product/MP81122317.htm?utm_medium=productsearch&utm_source=google

Dave

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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