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pughgl

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Mar 13 10 9:27 PM

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Hello. I just purchased my first sailboat which so happens is a Bristol 29. I am told that it was built in Ontario Canada. The previous owner seems to know a lot about her. I should mention that I do have a oday 27 in my yard that I bought because it was cheap but it turns out that it is going to take too much time and money to fix her for what she is worth. Anyway, lesson learned and not out too much money.
Reading some of the stuff on here does have me wondering about something though.When I went to see the Bristol the guy told me that not to worry about deck delam (this was the main problem with the Oday) as this Bristol hull has no core and is solid fiberglass. Kinda makes me worried now that I read in here that it may.
Another thing is he has removed the Atomic 4 and has installed a 30hp outboard to the back. He has a problem with gas engines in the hull (leaks) and has had a bracket made up to hold the outboard straight so that the rudder can be used to stear her. Is the transom strong enough to support this?.
I bought it trusting him as he will be at the same marina and says he will assist me for as long as it takes to get me in the water and will sail with me until I am comfortable(I have taken lessons). The sails are brand new and I talked to the sail makers. All of the shrouds and stays are new as well as the interior cushions. He had planned on keeping her but decided on a larger boat "of his dreams".
Hopefully all is well with her. I don't think that he would knowingly tell me untruths but maybe is misinformed.

Thanks for any help
Glenn


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christopher

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#1 [url]

Mar 14 10 12:40 PM

Hi Glenn,

I also recently bought a 1970 Bristol 29.  I believe that the Bristols were built in Bristol, RI.  Also, these boats definitely have the balsa wood core.  My boat has some delamination in the forepeak which I believe owe to some faulty deck hardware installations.  Although they often go hand-in-hand, delamination is not as serious as core rot.  The dull thud with a resin hammer will indicate delamination, but if you put weight on the area and it flexes easily or feels particularly springy or soft, you may have rot as well.  The front 2 feet of decking on my B29 is delaminated, but doesn't feel rotted at all.  It's fairly easy to tell if your core is rotten by drilling a small test hole in an area not difficult to touch up with paint and taking a look at the middle core section.

Motor brackets are common on transoms, it's just important that they are properly installed.  I've never installed one myself but know that they should be installed using the proper backing plates and the bolt holes should be regularly removed and inspected.  A 30 HP outboard is fairly uncommon as I don't think many of this size come in the long shaft variety... not sure though..  Hanging off the transom the motors are also subject to coming up out of the water easily while underway and this is exacerbated when it is not a long shaft.  Many people that prefer outboards to A4's convert their aft lazarettes into motor wells where the engine can sit lower in the water and not as far back on the teeter-totter as the boat pitches through waves.

I, like you, have a lot of questions about my boat which will be answered all too soon when it's warm enough to get out on the water :)  I'm located in southern Wisconsin but my boat is about 100 miles north of me on Lake Michigan.  I'll be sailing her home in the next couple of months.  Here are some pics

David, who runs this particular forum, has provided me with a lot of answers and is very knowledgeable about this model boat.  Good luck to you and please share your findings as you get to know your boat better!


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pughgl

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Posts: 26

#2 [url]

Mar 14 10 5:18 PM

Thanks for the reply Chris.
Well I sure do hope that all is well with my boat. You see this may sound stupid but it is still mostly covered with shrinkwrap (which is great that he did that to protect her) so I haven't walked the deck yet. Because winter isn't really over yet I decided to leave it on til I am ready to get at her.I did some "Knockin" while I was looking at it but he just kept assuring me that I was wasting my time and that it was solid. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that he is in any way intrustworthy but maybe misinformed. Oh well, if it is as solid as he says delam or no delam it was still a good deal. And he kept swearing by how solid this boat was.

And I don't think he would have let me post date cheques for the next two months if there was a problem.

When I get her uncovered, and I think if the weather keeps up it will be next thursday, I will look he over and take lots of pics.

Thanks again Chris for the reply.
Glenn

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christopher

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#3 [url]

Mar 14 10 10:36 PM

Glenn,

I'm slowly discovering that just about anything on these boats is fixable and while it can be time-consuming, nothing is really out of reach for the average guy.  My boat came with new sails as well.  This is a huge plus.  Don't take much of what I say to be gospel as I'm a complete rookie to boat repair.  I've been sailing for 10 years but always on boats where someone else got to deal with the repairs.  I went through 20 or so boats and toiled for well over a year on what to buy before finally deciding to get the Bristol.  It's amazing that even after going through all of those boats and mine with a supposed fine-toothed comb, I still didn't see any of the problems I've since discovered.  I fully expect to discover many more. 

Are you in the Great Lakes as well?

Looking forward to hearing about your boat when you get aboard.  Take lots of pictures!

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pughgl

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#4 [url]

Mar 15 10 5:10 AM

Yes, I am on Lake Ontario @ Kingston. And I know that I have some work to to on this boat but I hope that it does get too carried away. I Hope that this year is mostly a sailing year. The previous owner tells me it will be.

Thanks for your replies and I hope to hear from you as well when you get her in the water.

Glenn

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#5 [url]

Mar 15 10 7:15 AM

Hi Glenn,

Welcome to the forum.

I can assure you that if you have bought a Bristol Yacht, it was made in Bristol. RI and no where else. Also, as you said above it sounds like the PO is misinformed about some things, such as the solid decks. None of the Bristols were built with solid decks--it adds too much weight and changes the balance of the boat too much.

Regarding hanging a 30 hp outboard on the stern--the stern is not built strongly enough for that sort of stress or weight. You could hang a 9hp long shaft on the stern, but even that would come out fo the water most of the time in any kind of seas--just when you would need it.

Please keep us up to date on your boat and post pictures when you can.

Cheers,

David

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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pughgl

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Posts: 26

#6 [url]

Mar 17 10 9:33 PM

Ok. At first I was excited about this boat and now not so much. I found some delam, not much, but I see that there is a core. Not as much core as the deck on my Oday 27 that has extensive delam. Anyways, not too bad. But this engine thing..... I think i will try to find a replacement Atomic 4. I have had people say that it "should" be fine but I had bad feelings about it from the beginning and I believe David probably knows what he is talking about. It is only 120 lbs but....and will be stationary but....
Since I don't have the old engine is there and specifics that i need to know about a replacement??  I do have the Vire 7 out of the Oday but it is only 7 hp and lining it up may cause problems.


One other thing that concerns me. I noticed some cracks below the water line on the hull running front to back about a foot long around where the cockpit drains on both sides. Should I be concerned? They are barely noticable and have been painted over with botom paint. It just looks like they are in the gelcoat

Thanks for the help all

Glenn

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#7 [url]

Mar 18 10 4:53 AM

Glenn,

As much as I love Bristol 29's, I have to say you should pass on this boat. I don't like the misrepresentations made by the current owner, I think hanging a 30 hp engine on the stern may have caused structural problems (perhaps contributing to the cracks you see at the waterline near the cockpit drains. The boat was never designed to have that kind of weight nor forces imposed on the transom and I would not be surprised if there were cracks in the lazarette that will grow with more use until someday something exciting will happen, like the transom falling off!

If you really feel this is the only boat for you, by all means haul her and inspect her properly. The cracking you mention should not be there obviously and you need to see what else is wrong in the underbody, the rudder, the keel, etc. You really need a good survey--which again if you continue with this purchase, will help you negotiate the price (which I think personally is too high).

As to replacing the outboard with another inboard engine, there are plenty of A-4's available and by searching other forums I'm sure you could locate one. Also Volvo MD2B's were installed in the B29 as an upgrade to the gas engine. The Volvo lasts forever and parts are available (but expensive). You could get by with 8 shaft horsepower in the B29, although a little more hp would be better, a number of small used engines would work. Finally, the B29 has a very large engine box, so fitting another engine is relatively easy--only the beds need to be modified. Any competent marine mechanic should be able to do that without any major issues.

Think realistically about this boat. The outboard alone would steer me clear of her, the delamination will be expensive and or time consuming, the fact that the owner is not forthright about the boat..all these add up to a Pass in my book.

Good luck,

David

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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christopher

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Posts: 19

#8 [url]

Mar 18 10 7:27 AM

I think the boat has already been purchased -- has it not Glenn?

Don't worry too much... I'm sure she floats and will be able to sail just fine.  You may want to find yourself a smaller used outboard in the meantime just to get you by.  Just inspect the transom and the bracket carefully before hanging another motor off of there.  I'm no expert on any of this stuff so I would yield to David's advice on anything to do with repairs and structural matters. 

Do you have any pics of the boat? the cracks?  Get some shots of the motor bracket from the inside of that lazarette..

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pughgl

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Posts: 26

#9 [url]

Mar 19 10 2:40 PM

Hi David. Thanks for the reply.

And Christopher is correct I have already purchased the boat.
He hadn't mounted the 30 hp yet. He had a 9.9 on her last year and I did look for stress on the stern and there are no cracks. So I own her now and hope that I made the right decision. Don't feel great (actually I feel sick) about it now after reading your response but what can I do.  I will be at the same marina with the PO and he is getting me a slip so he will be right there if any issues come up.
So those cracks that I mention are barely noticable and have been painted over so they don't look like they are any bigger than the last time it was painted which was two years ago. Should I have someone look at them? Who? 
And I now have access to an atomic 4 that I could put in her and as I mentioned I have a Vire 7 that I could take out of an Oday that I bought a few years ago but don't have time to fix. I had the Vire running and haven't seen this atomic 4 yet. He wants $300 for the Atomic with all controls. The PO says that the Atomics are nothing but trouble. Which one would you put in. I figured the Atomic would be the easiest as it should just drop in but as I said the PO is convincing when he descibes all of the problems they have. I know I know but being a newbie I only know what I am told.

Please help...
Thanks again
Glenn 

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#10 [url]

Mar 19 10 3:25 PM

Glenn,

Congratulations on your B29. We'll get you sailing her (just not with a 30hp engine hanging on the stern)!. I'm pleased to hear the big outboard has not been installed as that would have structurally been a bad mistake. I don't know much about Vires other than they are very small engines..I think the one you have is only 7 hp which is marginal for a B29 (it would get you in and out of slips at marinas, but could probably not push the yacht against much of a head wind or head seas. There is nothing wrong with the A4 engine other than it was originally and industrial engine--it does not even have an oil filter. However, lots of sailors swear by then, and some like the PO swear at them. I think in the long run it is a better idea to install an A4. Finding one even if it needs rebuilding for 300.00 is a steal. It is a very basic engine: give it new rings, new valves and guides, an unwarped head and a solid ignition system and it should run very nicely and reliably. I would spend my money there and as you say it should drop into the Bristol with little problems. 

As to the cracks. Can you describe them in more detail, or better yet, take a couple of pictures and post them to the forum? How long are the cracks? Do you see them even though they have been painted over? Are they below the boot stripe (waterline) or above?

David

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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christopher

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#11 [url]

Mar 19 10 7:39 PM

Agree on the A4.  I have yet to run mine extensively, but I've sailed boats with them before and they run a lot smoother and quieter than a typical marine diesel, and MUCH quiter and smoother than an outboard.  If you have it rebuilt, it'll treat you well.

There's another school of thought out there which I mentioned before and that is to convert your lazarette into a motor well.  It takes some work, but can really be a nice way to power your boat.  The ease of maintenance is a huge advantage.  The motor can be pulled up out of the well and strapped down when not needed to reduce drag.  If I had an empty engine compartment already, I might try it...   Here's a link to James Baldwin's site where he did this very project on an Alberg 35... 

Easy for me to say as I've got a fully functioning A4 sitting in my boat :) 

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pughgl

Able Bodied Seaman

Posts: 26

#12 [url]

Mar 20 10 5:15 AM

Thanks so much for the replies guys.!! You may have noticed that I get a little worked up about stuff and this purchase was starting to give me a sick feeling. It is nice to here some positive stuff. Anyways, I will see about that Atomic today and go from there.
As for the cracks I will try to get some pics that show them and will ask the main guy at the marina if there is someone he knows that could look at them.

Thanks again!!!

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pughgl

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Posts: 26

#13 [url]

Mar 20 10 6:37 AM

Or I could throw a little outboard on the back. I don't really want to get into that lazarette conversion thing Christopher although I can see how an outboard would be nice.

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christopher

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Posts: 19

#14 [url]

Mar 20 10 9:36 AM

I know the sinking/sick feeling you describe.  I put in an informal offer on an old Pearson Ariel.  She was a pretty boat but everything was original and needed a TON of work.  When I started adding up the costs just to get her sailing it just really hit me in the gut.  I backed out of the deal and gave my apologies.

After that I took a break for awhile and all the while had this B29 in the back of my mind.  She has come with her own fair share of surprises and I've had my moments, but I'm confident that she'll float.  She's got new sails and a lot of other new equipment that will save me a lot of money, but I just have to do some fiberglass and epoxy work which I've never done before.  I've now discovered that while the boat boasts two bilge pumps, neither work and I consider pumping capability to be second in importance only to the hull's ability to keep it afloat.  There's some bulkhead separation, chainplate integrity problems, a masthead leak, electrical problems, bad battery mount, foredeck delamination, and who the heck knows what else...

Bottom line is... You're not alone!

Take comfort in the fact that the boat is yours and no matter what you have to deal with you'll get it done with a little determination and a few bucks :)

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pughgl

Able Bodied Seaman

Posts: 26

#15 [url]

Mar 21 10 5:14 AM

Sounds like we bought the same boat, except mine doesn't have an engine.
I think I just need to get her in the water and sail!!! Or WE just need to get them in the water and sail.  As long as she is safe who cares about the rest. 

May God have mercy on us both ;)

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christopher

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Posts: 19

#16 [url]

Mar 22 10 7:47 AM

If you don't mind me asking, how much did you wind up paying for your B29?  I paid $5000 for mine.  Prices of boats are so variable, especially in this economy.  Depends on the condition of the boat, the position of the seller, the eagerness of the buyer and a whole host of other factors.  I'm glad I backed out of the Ariel I was looking at as I think I had offered way too much for it.  I may wind up thinking I paid too much for this one as well once everything is said and done but live and learn I guess :)  As long as I have a boat to sail I'm just fine with it.

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pughgl

Able Bodied Seaman

Posts: 26

#17 [url]

Mar 23 10 7:55 AM

I paid $8000 so you did a lot better than I. The PO did put close to that into it last year though in lines, sails, rigging,interior and I am going to sell that 30 hp evinrude so whatever I guess. I really bought it because it is ready to go (except for the engine) and the  PO will help me help started. Also it is paid up till june including putting it in the water. And I don't really have the time to shop around and the experience to  know what I am looking for. Now I am started and can move on from here.

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christopher

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#18 [url]

Mar 24 10 6:03 PM

Well... people don't buy boats as a financial investment so as long as you're happy with her it doesn't matter what you paid.  That's the way I'm trying to look at my own purchase.  I'll never recoup what I plan to put into her in money and sweat so I'm just going to enjoy the ride :)

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pughgl

Able Bodied Seaman

Posts: 26

#19 [url]

Apr 3 10 5:15 PM

Hello. I just found an Atomic 4 to replace the one that the PO had throw out. It is out of a "Aloha" or something like that. Anyways, we  are working on getting it going (just picked it up today) and I was wondering if anyone had picks of the motor mounts as they go on the Bristol. Now that I have seen the engine I will look at the Bristol myself (when I get time) but thought if someone had pics of what it looks like where it meets the boat that would be very helpful. The engine that I bought came with mounts attached to it with rubber inserts.

Anyways I am at work all weekend (nites) and thought I would throw it out there.

Thanks
Glenn

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#20 [url]

Apr 4 10 8:02 AM

Here is a good resource for you, and be sure to check out their forum as well:
http://www.moyermarine.com/

Almost all marine motor mounts do have rubber as a vibration damper. Since an A4 was removed from your boat my guess is all you need are new motor mounts. Checked the Moyer site to see what they recommend for the B29 and found this:

(OHSP_09_239)  Adjustable engine mount (standard)
Adjustable engine mount (standard)This mount was used in most production boats throughout the 1970's and beyond. In order to use it in boats with earlier rail-mounted engines, it is necessary to cut off approximately 2 - 1/2" from the top of the mounting rails and increase the size of the mounting holes in your oil pan from 3/8" to 11/16".
 

Adjustable engine mount (standard)
Price:$37.50
Weight:1.00
Quantity:
Options:
Price with your options:

    

Another thing to consider is that the A4 is so smooth running you could bolt it directly to the engine bed logs.

Good luck. 

David

Restoring a Bristol 29 in my backyard. www.bristol29.com

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